Sunday, July 31, 2011

[papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Dan -- go to YouTube.com and search for tow-behind papercrete mixer. You'll find several videos showing them in action.

Don't know the answer regarding blade length. Do know that a builder in the Deming, NM, area uses a short stubby piece of channel iron fence post in a 200-gallon tub to good effect. (Cheaper than lawnmower blades, too.)

Am building one of these in August and plan to try the fence-post blade first.

Hope that helps,
ken winston caine

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Clarke2" <clarke2@...> wrote:
>
> On the subject of the blade placement, I'm curious how critical the diameter of the blade, as it relates to the diameter of the tub, is.
>
> Having never seen a car rear end type mixer in action, I'm trying to invision the motion of the papercrete as it is being shredded and mixed.
>
> I'm wondering if I could use a 5 foot diameter by 2 foot high tub with a 20" lawn mower blade. Would the entire contents of the tub be drawn into the mix?
>
> How about if I were mixing a small batch that filled the tub only half full?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>


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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



A diaphragm pump should work well. I haven't seen one I can afford, even used. I wanted a diaphragm pump at the time, what I bought was an impeller pump that had deceptive specifications, and it does not pump particles as large as it claimed. It does very well at pumping "clean" pc but something like a window from an envelope will clog it. Taking it apart, cleaning it out, and reassembling it takes ten to fifteen minutes and that adds up when you have to do it several times a day.

Renting a diaphragm pump cost effectively would require a lot of work done in a short time, constant mixing and pumping. Even then the pump is going to be sitting there idle 85% of the time. If the budget allows, buying a diaphragm pump with the idea of eventually selling it at a small loss could be an option. Then one might not feel pressed to work long hours constantly to justify rental.

Pumps take most of the work out of papercrete, making it into a one woman job.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.   
On 7/30/2011 2:35 AM, Clarke2 wrote:
From your description, Spaceman, you are using an impeller type pump.
 
How about the diaphram type trash pumps?
 
I've used them to pump mud with sticks etc. with good results and am looking for a used one for when I build my papercrete mixer.
 
Dan



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Saturday, July 30, 2011

Re: [papercreters] I am having a tow mixer built but



On the subject of the blade placement, I'm curious how critical the diameter of the blade, as it relates to the diameter of the tub, is.
 
Having never seen a car rear end type mixer in action, I'm trying to invision the motion of the papercrete as it is being shredded and mixed.
 
I'm wondering if I could use a 5 foot diameter by 2 foot high tub with a 20" lawn mower blade. Would the entire contents of the tub be drawn into the mix?
 
How about if I were mixing a small batch that filled the tub only half full? 
 
Thanks,
Dan
 
 
 
* voted Obama?
Embarrassed yet? *  
----- Original Message -----
From: lon wells
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [papercreters] I am having a tow mixer built but

 

No have him grind, scarf or cut the welds lower the blades close to the bottom.
You need to mix the total contents of the barrel. Also if the blades are at the
bottom you can do small batches. It was his fault he should do it for free.

Lon

----- Original Message ----
From: Teresa P <ablueprincess@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 10:31:46 AM
Subject: [papercreters] I am having a tow mixer built but

the guy I hired got creative on me. I gave him a bunch of pictures I downloaded
of the mixer I wanted built. Apparently he didnt understand why it would not
leak (I forgot to tell him about the bondo) and he instead built the platform
about 6" higher then the top of the differential. Then he welded a pole onto the
top of the differential and put it about 3' into the air. He cut a center hole
in a 55 gallon drum and put that on the platform with this pole coming up about
1/2 way into the barrel. Then he welded lawn mower blades onto the top of the
pole. So now, instead of it being like a giant blender with the blades at the
bottom of the barrel they are half up in the middle of the barrel.

Question, will this work?

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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



From your description, Spaceman, you are using an impeller type pump.
 
How about the diaphram type trash pumps?
 
I've used them to pump mud with sticks etc. with good results and am looking for a used one for when I build my papercrete mixer.
 
Dan
 
 
 
* voted Obama?
Embarrassed yet? *
----- Original Message -----
From: Spaceman
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

 

My trash rated pump will empty my no-tow 200 gallon mixer in less than five minutes. You are going to get about five cubic feet of product from a drum, which a decent pump will pump in a minute or two. You might want to consider a larger tank since you need to rebuild anyway.

I went too cheap on my pump, about $200, and it clogs easily if the papercrete has anything other than clean paper in it. Get the best you can afford, try for one that will pass debris at least 1.5" in diameter absolute. Watch for deceptive specifications. Mine said it would pass 1.5" particles but the vanes in the pump have 3/4" openings between them. It could pass something 3/4x3/4x1.5" maybe if it was really soft, but certainly not something like a 1.5" sphere of undissolved recycled pc.  I end up tearing my pump down often, a real time waster. If I had it to do again I would come up with the $800 needed for a real pump, it would pay for itself quickly in time and labor savings. You can find a decent pump on ebay for around that if you keep looking. I would make a mount for it right on the mixer.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  
On 7/28/2011 5:53 PM, Teresa P wrote:
I got a 3" gate valve for it today. Im in the market for a trash pump. I was looking at ebay for one, but Im not exactly sure what I should get. I want to slip form though... one of these danged days! Im trying :) Finding the rear end was a real score for me (free! from the same guy that is doing this hack job) One step at a time (and 3 steps backwards) one of these days I will actually make my first batch of PC. Thank you again    


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3793 - Release Date: 07/28/11



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Friday, July 29, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



yeah really true.
I have two stick welders, a wire welder, a great set of torches and a Henrob/Cobra torch set.
Don't ask me to weld anything for you though.
I will have a friend here to weld a new hitch on my truck in the morning.
I will not weld anything that goes down the road.
 
Alan

--- On Fri, 7/29/11, lon wells <lononriver@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: lon wells <lononriver@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 12:04 PM

Don't panic. I know many journeymen welders with a lifetime of experience that
have never owned a welder. They use their employers welder.  The key here is to
look at the weld. (Do a google image search for weld) Is it smooth? Does it flow
into the parent metal. If it is lumpy and has slag in the weld then you can
assume it is a bad weld. Many handymen are good welders. The proof is in the
putting or in the weld. I always hired welders by the quality of their welds,
not in the ownership of a machine or tittle.

                                                                                           
Lon



----- Original Message ----
From: Teresa P <ablueprincess@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 12:03:08 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but


Should I have him scrap the whole thing and start over? Is it important the
differential be actually inside the barrel?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Teresa P" <ablueprincess@...> wrote:
>
>
> Holy Cow Batman!!! He is NOT an "experienced" welder, he is just a handyman
>type guy! This sounds scary! He is using my welder that I recently bought
>because I want to take a class at the college. It is an arc welder and he has
>only used mig in the past but has never owned his own welder, so I dont think
>his welds are going to be super top notch. I will absolutely have him lower the
>blades though TODAY!!
>




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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



Yes, Lon, I so agree with you!

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, lon wells <lononriver@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Don't panic. I know many journeymen welders with a lifetime of experience that
have never owned a welder. They use their employers welder. The key here is to
look at the weld. (Do a google image search for weld) Is it smooth? Does it flow
into the parent metal. If it is lumpy and has slag in the weld then you can
assume it is a bad weld. Many handymen are good welders. The proof is in the
putting or in the weld. I always hired welders by the quality of their welds,
not in the ownership of a machine or tittle.

Lon

----- Original Message ----
From: Teresa P <ablueprincess@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 12:03:08 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Should I have him scrap the whole thing and start over? Is it important the
differential be actually inside the barrel?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Teresa P" <ablueprincess@...> wrote:
>
>
> Holy Cow Batman!!! He is NOT an "experienced" welder, he is just a handyman
>type guy! This sounds scary! He is using my welder that I recently bought
>because I want to take a class at the college. It is an arc welder and he has
>only used mig in the past but has never owned his own welder, so I dont think
>his welds are going to be super top notch. I will absolutely have him lower the
>blades though TODAY!!
>

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"If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn out just right."

- Sequoyah Trueblood




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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Don't panic. I know many journeymen welders with a lifetime of experience that
have never owned a welder. They use their employers welder. The key here is to
look at the weld. (Do a google image search for weld) Is it smooth? Does it flow
into the parent metal. If it is lumpy and has slag in the weld then you can
assume it is a bad weld. Many handymen are good welders. The proof is in the
putting or in the weld. I always hired welders by the quality of their welds,
not in the ownership of a machine or tittle.


Lon

----- Original Message ----
From: Teresa P <ablueprincess@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 12:03:08 PM
Subject: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but


Should I have him scrap the whole thing and start over? Is it important the
differential be actually inside the barrel?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Teresa P" <ablueprincess@...> wrote:
>
>
> Holy Cow Batman!!! He is NOT an "experienced" welder, he is just a handyman
>type guy! This sounds scary! He is using my welder that I recently bought
>because I want to take a class at the college. It is an arc welder and he has
>only used mig in the past but has never owned his own welder, so I dont think
>his welds are going to be super top notch. I will absolutely have him lower the
>blades though TODAY!!
>


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Thursday, July 28, 2011

[papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Thank you for the advice! It was you who gave me the idea of a pump a loooonnngg time ago. You didnt have one yet but you were thinking about it and concerned about how to get it up high on a wall. I assume you got that figured out? Are there brands I should look for or stay away from? An electric start would work well for me.

As for the barrel, yes that is temporary. If all goes well (once I actually get started), I was wanting to upgrade to a larger one like the rest of you here.

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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



My trash rated pump will empty my no-tow 200 gallon mixer in less than five minutes. You are going to get about five cubic feet of product from a drum, which a decent pump will pump in a minute or two. You might want to consider a larger tank since you need to rebuild anyway.

I went too cheap on my pump, about $200, and it clogs easily if the papercrete has anything other than clean paper in it. Get the best you can afford, try for one that will pass debris at least 1.5" in diameter absolute. Watch for deceptive specifications. Mine said it would pass 1.5" particles but the vanes in the pump have 3/4" openings between them. It could pass something 3/4x3/4x1.5" maybe if it was really soft, but certainly not something like a 1.5" sphere of undissolved recycled pc.  I end up tearing my pump down often, a real time waster. If I had it to do again I would come up with the $800 needed for a real pump, it would pay for itself quickly in time and labor savings. You can find a decent pump on ebay for around that if you keep looking. I would make a mount for it right on the mixer.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  
On 7/28/2011 5:53 PM, Teresa P wrote:
 I got a 3" gate valve for it today. Im in the market for a trash pump. I was looking at ebay for one, but Im not exactly sure what I should get. I want to slip form though... one of these danged days! Im trying :) Finding the rear end was a real score for me (free! from the same guy that is doing this hack job) One step at a time (and 3 steps backwards) one of these days I will actually make my first batch of PC. Thank you again    


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[papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

I got a 3" gate valve for it today. Im in the market for a trash pump. I was looking at ebay for one, but Im not exactly sure what I should get. I want to slip form though... one of these danged days! Im trying :) Finding the rear end was a real score for me (free! from the same guy that is doing this hack job) One step at a time (and 3 steps backwards) one of these days I will actually make my first batch of PC. Thank you again

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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



After seeing your photos I would say definitely revise the design. Make the frame lower so 4-6" of the differential sticks into your drum and mount the blade directly on the yoke with bolts. That will make a strong design, and you can seal it with bondo or mastic between your tank and the differential. It is not easy but doable to cut the hole in your plywood and drum bottom to closely follow the contour of the differential. The photo in my previous post is a link to my mixer photos which do not show the plywood I added later. I'll eventually revise that page, when I get some more round tuits.

I would be cautious moving what you have. It looks like the shaft is not centered or square with the differential, and the only support in the middle appears to be a hole through plywood and the metal bottom of the tank. If the shaft is off center than it will vibrate a lot. There is not much clearance between the blade tips and the drum sides, so any flopping around would probably result in a short drum or worse.

The biggest problem with this type of mixer is that the seal on the differential will leak and let water into the gears, and a little oil into the papercrete mix. This was never an issue for me, or for others with the same type of mixer. The water in the oil doesn't seem to hurt much, and what oil gets into the pc just vanishes as you use it. Shop around for an old truck inner tube and make yourself an elephant trunk on the bottom of your tank. Buckets get old really fast.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information. 

On 7/28/2011 4:51 PM, Teresa P wrote:
 Im afraid that he is going to have to start over from scratch.. I havent spoken with him yet, so he doesnt know. I did take a bunch of pics of it and would appreciate any advice http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/photos/album/1621329409/pic/list Thank you, you could very well be saving my son's or my life!    ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     papercreters-digest@yahoogroups.com      papercreters-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     papercreters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3793 - Release Date: 07/28/11   


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[papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Thanks. Ive posted here before and lurked often. I "knew" this is THE place to go for anything papercrete :) This is a great group!

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Ev <evelynanne8@...> wrote:
>
> I am very sorry that this happened and very glad you had the present of mind
> to ask these experienced people here, good luck my dear!
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Teresa P <ablueprincess@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> > Im afraid that he is going to have to start over from scratch.. I havent
> > spoken with him yet, so he doesnt know. I did take a bunch of pics of it and
> > would appreciate any advice
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/photos/album/1621329409/pic/listThank you, you could very well be saving my son's or my life!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn out
> just right."
>
> - Sequoyah Trueblood
>


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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



I am very sorry that this happened and very glad you had the present of mind to ask these experienced people here, good luck my dear!

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Teresa P <ablueprincess@yahoo.com> wrote:
 


Im afraid that he is going to have to start over from scratch.. I havent spoken with him yet, so he doesnt know. I did take a bunch of pics of it and would appreciate any advice http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/photos/album/1621329409/pic/list Thank you, you could very well be saving my son's or my life!




--
"If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn out just right."

- Sequoyah Trueblood




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[papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Im afraid that he is going to have to start over from scratch.. I havent spoken with him yet, so he doesnt know. I did take a bunch of pics of it and would appreciate any advice http://groups.yahoo.com/group/papercreters/photos/album/1621329409/pic/list Thank you, you could very well be saving my son's or my life!

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Re: [papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but



How would you seal around the spinning shaft? If your tank/drum fits down around the top of the differential with the spinning part inside then you can seal between the tank and the non-moving metal.


spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  
On 7/28/2011 1:03 PM, Teresa P wrote:
 Should I have him scrap the whole thing and start over? Is it important the differential be actually inside the barrel?  


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[papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Should I have him scrap the whole thing and start over? Is it important the differential be actually inside the barrel?

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "Teresa P" <ablueprincess@...> wrote:
>
>
> Holy Cow Batman!!! He is NOT an "experienced" welder, he is just a handyman type guy! This sounds scary! He is using my welder that I recently bought because I want to take a class at the college. It is an arc welder and he has only used mig in the past but has never owned his own welder, so I dont think his welds are going to be super top notch. I will absolutely have him lower the blades though TODAY!!
>


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[papercreters] Re: I am having a tow mixer built but

Holy Cow Batman!!! He is NOT an "experienced" welder, he is just a handyman type guy! This sounds scary! He is using my welder that I recently bought because I want to take a class at the college. It is an arc welder and he has only used mig in the past but has never owned his own welder, so I dont think his welds are going to be super top notch. I will absolutely have him lower the blades though TODAY!!

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Re: [papercreters] I am having a tow mixer built but



Beyond the issue of mixing the stuff on the bottom, I would be worried about the welds holding. He may be a great welder, but the blade in a tow mixer takes a beating if you throw in piles of paper or phone books, for instance. With the long shaft and no support on the top end, you will get very large forces trying to rip the shaft off. This is a safety concern. Even if the welds hold the shaft will flex in use and eventually due to metal fatigue will break somewhere. You don't want to be close when it comes spinning through the side of the drum.

My mixer has a hole in the side where a blade got loose due to a loose bolt. We never did find the blade, luckily nobody was standing there when it exited.

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information. 

On 7/28/2011 11:31 AM, Teresa P wrote:
the guy I hired got creative on me. I gave him a bunch of pictures I downloaded of the mixer I wanted built. Apparently he didnt understand why it would not leak (I forgot to tell him about the bondo) and he instead built the platform about 6" higher then the top of the differential. Then he welded a pole onto the top of the differential and put it about 3' into the air. He cut a center hole in a 55 gallon drum and put that on the platform with this pole coming up about 1/2 way into the barrel. Then he welded lawn mower blades onto the top of the pole. So now, instead of it being like a giant blender with the blades at the bottom of the barrel they are half up in the middle of the barrel.  Question, will this work?    


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Re: [papercreters] I am having a tow mixer built but

No have him grind, scarf or cut the welds lower the blades close to the bottom.
You need to mix the total contents of the barrel. Also if the blades are at the
bottom you can do small batches. It was his fault he should do it for free.

Lon

----- Original Message ----
From: Teresa P <ablueprincess@yahoo.com>
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 10:31:46 AM
Subject: [papercreters] I am having a tow mixer built but

the guy I hired got creative on me. I gave him a bunch of pictures I downloaded
of the mixer I wanted built. Apparently he didnt understand why it would not
leak (I forgot to tell him about the bondo) and he instead built the platform
about 6" higher then the top of the differential. Then he welded a pole onto the
top of the differential and put it about 3' into the air. He cut a center hole
in a 55 gallon drum and put that on the platform with this pole coming up about
1/2 way into the barrel. Then he welded lawn mower blades onto the top of the
pole. So now, instead of it being like a giant blender with the blades at the
bottom of the barrel they are half up in the middle of the barrel.

Question, will this work?

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[papercreters] I am having a tow mixer built but

the guy I hired got creative on me. I gave him a bunch of pictures I downloaded of the mixer I wanted built. Apparently he didnt understand why it would not leak (I forgot to tell him about the bondo) and he instead built the platform about 6" higher then the top of the differential. Then he welded a pole onto the top of the differential and put it about 3' into the air. He cut a center hole in a 55 gallon drum and put that on the platform with this pole coming up about 1/2 way into the barrel. Then he welded lawn mower blades onto the top of the pole. So now, instead of it being like a giant blender with the blades at the bottom of the barrel they are half up in the middle of the barrel.

Question, will this work?

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Tuesday, July 26, 2011

Re: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete



I've been reading all the replies on this thread. And I've got to say this sounds like one big adventure!  I love adventures!  Did you have fun George?  

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 4:11 PM, George <georgeberz@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Sorry I guess I thought I updated the group...



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Re: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete ***OFF TOPIC*** Cease and Desist Notice



its funny...all this got started.. when i asked the guy if he needed any help on his project
as i would be passing thru his area...wierd

--- On Tue, 7/26/11, Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

From: Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete ***OFF TOPIC*** Cease and Desist Notice
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 10:21 PM

 
OK guys, let's get back on topic. If you gotta talk about politics and stuff, George's forum would be a better place. You can rant and rave about big government and big brother all you want to there. Papercrete is the topic here.

Thank you for your cooperation.  : )
spaceman 

On 7/26/2011 8:49 AM, George wrote:
If the govt taxes you for a service, I expect the service dont you, ie if you are charged for water do you actually expect water?  George http://outpostalpha.com  


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Re: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete ***OFF TOPIC*** Cease and Desist Notice



OK guys, let's get back on topic. If you gotta talk about politics and stuff, George's forum would be a better place. You can rant and rave about big government and big brother all you want to there. Papercrete is the topic here.

Thank you for your cooperation.  : )

spaceman 

On 7/26/2011 8:49 AM, George wrote:
If the govt taxes you for a service, I expect the service dont you, ie if you are charged for water do you actually expect water?  George http://outpostalpha.com  


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Re: [papercreters] Durisol ICF blocks



Frankly, this block system is not new at all.

I wrote an article about a company in BC, Canada in the 80s which made these blocks from polyurethane. The same problem applies to ALL these blocks, because it comes back to a rebar/concrete filled form.

The system is basically the same as normal block building (the "normal" building system in Costa Rica and many other Central American countries), but with this difference that the blocks are different materials than the concrete used to fill them. Papercrete building has some good advantages, namely that the blocks and the "mortar are the same material and will bond to a (more or less) solid unit. With the stucco also made of a same material we now should have a well bonded wall.

And it is MUCH cheaper than a system which requires rebar and concrete. If you want to reinforce with rebar, make a block which allows for rebar to be inside. The problem is that rebar needs to be attached to the foundation. In order to do this properly you need to place each block from the top of the rebar down. A royal pain in the bar so to speak. I see it all the time in CR.

If you use a channel block, it is a challenge to get all the cement properly compounded inside. Honey combing is normal, and in many cases these cavities become great places for termites, many of which WILL eat right through your cement.

The wood fiber cement is not new either. In the 50s we used this material in 2x4 sheets about 2" thick for many purposes. Lightweight and rot/moisture resistant they were a good product. But, not something I would care to "manufacture" myself.

Anyway, so much for my 2 cents :-)

Peace to you all.
Mack



--- On Tue, 26/7/11, Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net> wrote:

From: Spaceman <Spaceman@starship-enterprises.net>
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Durisol ICF blocks
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, 26 July, 2011, 7:44 AM

 

Found online - "There is even a U.S. patent whereby wood can be treated with a silicate solution rendering the characteristics of petrified wood. US Patent for Petrified Wood Patent No. 4,612,050: "A mineralized sodium silicate solution for the application to wood has a composition causing it to penetrate the wood and jell within the wood so as to give the wood the non-burning characteristics of petrified wood." [2]. Researchers at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory found a method to create petrified wood in just a few days. [3]"

"Shin's petrified wood journey began in a less dramatic fashion, a few minutes away at Lowe's, Shin's group reports in the current issue of the journal Advanced Materials, in the do-it-yourselfer chain's lumberyard,. There they picked up their raw material: pine and poplar boards. Back at PNNL, they gave a 1 centimeter cube of wood a two-day acid bath, soaked it in a silica solution for two more (for best results, repeat this step up to three times), air-dried it, popped it into an argon-filled furnace gradually cranked up to 1,400 degrees centigrade to cook for two hours, then let cool in argon to room temperature."

At first glance this product looks similar to "sawdust crete" like Charmaine used to use. But then they start talking about "mineralized" wood which translates to "petrified" wood. The process seems to be a bit beyond what the average DIYer could do at home. The blocks are intended as forms for pouring concrete, and look like they would work well. They don't claim that they are structural anywhere that I found.

A few years ago someone on this list was making similarly shaped blocks from compressed papercrete. I don't remember seeing much about them after the initial post.

spaceman

All opinions expressed or implied
are subject to change without notice
upon receipt of new information.

http://Starship-Enterprises.Net
blog at http://Starship-Enterprises.Net/wordpress/

On 7/18/2011 9:25 AM, Greg House wrote:
I saw a video at FineHomebuilding.com about this product and though this group might find it interesting. It's an ICF block that's made with wood fibers and cement, similar to papercrete, but from the appearance of it, the wood isn't broken down completely to the fiber. They list several of the advantages of the material, and they're a lot of the same things we say about PC. 



Greg




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RE: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete



Before this gets into a slanging match about big government versus little government etc here's my tip on actually getting down this slippery road, from someone who's worked in the jungle in PNG (it's ALWAYS muddy there).

 

Track yourself down a little Suzuki Samurai 4x4(I think that's what they call them in the states).  Go to your local tractor shop and buy a set of 15" or 16" tractor tyres suitable  for one of those little Kubota tractors.  They are really cheap.  If town is close, you could even drive into town on them, but they do wear out quick on the hard stuff.

This will go better in mud than a quad, cost less, have a heater and a radio, and be useful when it's not raining, when you put the road tyres back on.

 

Trev

 

From: papercreters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:papercreters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald Miller
Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2011 12:22 AM
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete

 

 

Building permits and other government infringements on personal liberties are all about "public safety" as well. That handy little catch-all phrase is a useful tool for government infringement and beaurocratic establishment and intrusions. Montana is not California, that is why you want to move there, right? Don't expect paved roads and a WalMart on every corner.  --- On Mon, 7/25/11, George <georgeberz@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: George <georgeberz@yahoo.com>
Subject: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete
To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 25, 2011, 9:16 AM

 

Aparently the muddy road is all clay, no standard roadbase, and then covered with a thin layer of gravel, when it rains the clay loosens up and the gravel sinks, happens all the time I am told.

So I was put off and disullusioned a bit for the moment but intend to make my way back either later this year or early next and I do have a solution.

It is a county road and as such the county has an obligation to make and keep it safe for travel, the county adopted it and gets more property taxes from all the properties that lie along its length, so they do receive a financial incentive.

Now apparently they have not been put on notice by a law firm on behalf of the residents, When I go back out there I will have a legal notice drawn up listing the names of the local residents in a complaint filed by a law firm putting the county on notice about their defective road construction and maintinence and that should an accident occur or a normal 2 wheel drive vehicle get stuck the county will be sued and will pay for the liability.

Apparently no resident has put them on legal notice... My 2000 diesel discovery RV nearly slid off the road several times and it was just pure luck I didnt crash my RV.

I'm sure they will be properly maintaining the road once their liability has been properly explained to them.

After all its all about public safety.

I grew up in the Troy area just 15 miles north of Detroit

George
http://outpostalpha.com

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Alan <rustaholic777@...> wrote:
>
> As I understand it the muddy road is all public road?
> Why not file a complaint?
> They should dump a train load of gravel on the road.
>  
> Where in Michigan did you grow up?
> I am up near Traverse City.
> I have two neighbors here that call the county road commision whenever the road gets a bit ugly and for some reason they come out and fix it promptly.
>  
> Alan in Michigan
>
> --- On Sun, 7/24/11, George <georgeberz@...> wrote:
>



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[papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete

Are we talking public safety or responsibility? public safety will never take the place of responsibility and personal responsibility.

Hey Im all for going it alone, I dont want any govt intervention, but when I pay 40 cents a gallon for ROAD USE TAX I want it spent on that to keep up the county roads, I dont want to see road tax get used to pay for welfare or for firefighters.

When the county ADOPTS a road and takes over and formally accepts the maintinence obligations then they GENERALLY increase your property taxes because it makes your property more valuable... They do not make county roads for fun...

A little story, here the city decided it needed to widen the road at my mother in laws house, her 2.5 acres on a corner was rezoned to office/commercial went form 2 lanes to 4 lanes plus a center divider... guess what the city semt my inlaws a bill for over $50,000 and offered to spread it out over 20 years at x percent interest. and that 50k was after giving them supposed credit for the public use taking of over 20' of two sides of her property. and they kindly moved her mailbox for her as well.

Then they zoned the other 3 corners commercial retail, and now there are CVS pharmacy on one corner, savemart groceries and strip mall on one and a gas station fast food and car wash on the other... her family owner her little 2.5 acres for over 90 years and the city would not zone them commerical retail even though there were nothing but fig trees all around, it went tfrom farmers to developers who got special clearance and zoning privlidges... making each corner worth millions and hers only a few hundred k. oh and it costs 10k$ to ask for a zoning change and if disapproved you dont get any money back, they applied 2x over the course of 5 years.

So yes it strikes a bone in my bidy when the city/county/govt tells you what that can or will do and why...


George
http://outpostalpha.com

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...> wrote:
>
> Building permits and other government infringements on personal liberties are all about "public safety" as well. That handy little catch-all phrase is a useful tool for government infringement and beaurocratic establishment and intrusions. Montana is not California, that is why you want to move there, right? Don't expect paved roads and a WalMart on every corner.  --- On Mon, 7/25/11, George <georgeberz@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: George <georgeberz@...>
> Subject: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete
> To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, July 25, 2011, 9:16 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Aparently the muddy road is all clay, no standard roadbase, and then covered with a thin layer of gravel, when it rains the clay loosens up and the gravel sinks, happens all the time I am told.
>
> So I was put off and disullusioned a bit for the moment but intend to make my way back either later this year or early next and I do have a solution.
>
> It is a county road and as such the county has an obligation to make and keep it safe for travel, the county adopted it and gets more property taxes from all the properties that lie along its length, so they do receive a financial incentive.
>
> Now apparently they have not been put on notice by a law firm on behalf of the residents, When I go back out there I will have a legal notice drawn up listing the names of the local residents in a complaint filed by a law firm putting the county on notice about their defective road construction and maintinence and that should an accident occur or a normal 2 wheel drive vehicle get stuck the county will be sued and will pay for the liability.
>
> Apparently no resident has put them on legal notice... My 2000 diesel discovery RV nearly slid off the road several times and it was just pure luck I didnt crash my RV.
>
> I'm sure they will be properly maintaining the road once their liability has been properly explained to them.
>
> After all its all about public safety.
>
> I grew up in the Troy area just 15 miles north of Detroit
>
> George
> http://outpostalpha.com
>
> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Alan <rustaholic777@> wrote:
> >
> > As I understand it the muddy road is all public road?
> > Why not file a complaint?
> > They should dump a train load of gravel on the road.
> >  
> > Where in Michigan did you grow up?
> > I am up near Traverse City.
> > I have two neighbors here that call the county road commision whenever the road gets a bit ugly and for some reason they come out and fix it promptly.
> >  
> > Alan in Michigan
> >
> > --- On Sun, 7/24/11, George <georgeberz@> wrote:
> >
>


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[papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete

If the govt taxes you for a service, I expect the service dont you, ie if you are charged for water do you actually expect water?

Im not asking for a PAVED road, but since the counties are usually into codes and permits asking them for the SAME should not be like asking for the moon.

Look it up in your counties building department ask them what a county standard gravel road is... I do not believe there is a county standard road that is dirt, it must be gravel and road base to drain water off and away form the center. They the govt imposes these restrictions on its citizens when building and getting permits so why not hold them to the same standard.

Honestly though, if they did not charge property taxes, then I would not complan.. no taxes not services, works for me, but no double standards

that is what is making the county sick, double standards and govt imposed regulation of private business. so hold their feet to the fire I say, let em roast...

do debt extension either, make em cut expenses and live within their budget NOW not in 2012

George
http://outpostalpha.com


--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Donald Miller <donald1miller@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting how the debate rages in Washington about lowering the deficit and  reducing government spending and then I read this post and see the reason the government is so far in the red. We cannot expect the government, city, county. state or federal to do everything for everybody. The area in Montana had record rainfall this spring so the road is probably not like this every year. Montana is such a big state that the counties couldn't afford to upgrade and pave every county road without raising taxes to an extreme level. If you had paved roads then building permits would surely follow and then you wouldn't be able to build domes and experimental buildings or even live in an RV without a special permit. One has to weigh the options. And as far as the roads go, wait until winter and the temperatures hit 30 below and you have snow and blizzard condiions. The county won't be able to bail out everyone then either.
>
> --- On Mon, 7/25/11, Mel Riser <melriser@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mel Riser <melriser@...>
> Subject: Re: [papercreters] Re: Free Camping - Dome building and papercrete
> To: "papercreters@yahoogroups.com" <papercreters@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Monday, July 25, 2011, 9:49 AM
>
>

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