Saturday, October 30, 2010

[papercreters] Lime plaster& bee's wax over old fireplace

Here is a cool article.

the method of coating any old fireplace with layers of real lime plaster, with beeswax polished in is much like the Moroccan Tadelakt method* which uses black olive oil soap polished in layers with lime, making it waterproof.

in this method the lime layer is also fireproof, as lime plaster is too.

it is recommended that pros do it on such a big project. but why not try a small project?

http://www.vancouversun.com/want+plastered+fireplace+Randy+your/3744733/story.html

Charmaine Taylor
www.papercrete.com

* there is a new book out by a German, translated to English about the way real waterproof Tadelakt is done... showers, sinks, outdoor walls and floors.. it is a ton of hand polishing to do it right, not the faux stuff in a can you can buy that is trendy. See the W.W. Norton publisher.

http://books.wwnorton.com/books/detail.aspx?ID=993

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Tuesday, October 26, 2010

[papercreters] Re: papercrete curing,paint for and magnesium cement...?

Lime is a good durable low cost paint. Its breathable, alkaline, durable and about £6 per quarter tonne.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Paint#Limewash


NT

--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "eogreensticks" <eogreensticks@...> wrote:
>
> i have been doing some experimental concrete work for which the finish coat is papercrete and so far it looks promising-
>
> the base <bones> is made to any shape using cloth dipped in portland cement slurry (with bondcrete in)-the cloth can be old clothes cut to flat pieces if you want to be fancy (natural fibre best)
>
> the cloth is dipped and wrung out then hung on horizontal wires about 6 inches apart attached to wooden uprights (can use ringlock fencing!) Once the cloth has hardened up enough to carry on,a layer of 'sawcrete' goes over the bones (i use 3 sawdust-3 sand-1/2 lime putty-1/2 clay slip-1 portland by volume then 200 ml bondcrete stirred in)
> i paint the surface with porland slurry before putting the sawcrete on...
>
> once that's hardened up enough,the finish coat of Papercrete, again painting the surface first with porland slurry (2 paper pulp-3 sand-1/2 lime putty-1/2 clay slip-1 cement by volume then 200 ml bondcrete stirred in)This 'render coat' can be made very smooth and beautiful with lots of patting!The sculptural possibilities are intriguing and so far the basic structure is solid- my questions are:
>
> How long to wait before painting the papercrete:
> -Does it want a 28 day cure like portland does?
> -Would it be better to paint while the papercrete render is still curing so the paint surface bonds with the papercrete?
>
> -Does anyone have a good recipe for a breathable homemade paint for the papercrete? I have tried Grout mixed to paint consistency with a little bit of bondcrete and lime putty- it worked but the grout is a bit pricey.
>
> -Has anyone tried using Magnesium Cement with papercrete or sawcrete?
> i understand it is keen to form a bipolar bond with cellulose which portland apparently is not...?
>


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Monday, October 25, 2010

[papercreters] Re: papercrete curing,paint for and magnesium cement...?

Thanks for the info, sounds like something I would like to try. I have
been working inmate labor plastering the lower portion of an old brick
wall that has badly erroded. We have been using a mixture:

First off get the liquid up and mixed. Three parts water to one part
scrap latex paint.

Second let the paper pulp soak overnight then blend till creamy like
oatmeal.

Third start the mixture in a 5 gal bucket.

1 gal pulped paper

1 gal drywall compound (premixed)

mix the above ingredients until well blended.

start adding premixed morter mix until the mix becomes too thick to mix
in further, then start adding small amounts ot the water/paint mixture
to bring the mix to a smoother consistency then start adding premixed
morter mix again until the bucket is full, if it is to dry add some more
water/paint mixture.

this can be troweled very smooth with a pool trowel and makes a
wonderful looking wall, but as an added touch we mixed:

2 gallons fine sand blasting sand

1/2 gal paper pulp

1/2 gal drywall compound

1 gal masonary cement

1 gal portland cement

and enough water/paint to make the mixture really wet, this will have to
be poured into two different 5 gal buckets because it makes a little
over six gallons, we sprayed this with a small hopper and got a great
looking orange peel effect over the home made stucco. We belveled the
top edge so rain water could not get behind and we are going to paint as
soon as the mixture looks dry, about 3 or 4 days sould do the trick.

I'll try to post some photos as soon as I can.

Bob


--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, "eogreensticks" <eogreensticks@...>
wrote:
>
> i have been doing some experimental concrete work for which the finish
coat is papercrete and so far it looks promising-
>
> the base <bones> is made to any shape using cloth dipped in portland
cement slurry (with bondcrete in)-the cloth can be old clothes cut to
flat pieces if you want to be fancy (natural fibre best)
>
> the cloth is dipped and wrung out then hung on horizontal wires about
6 inches apart attached to wooden uprights (can use ringlock fencing!)
Once the cloth has hardened up enough to carry on,a layer of 'sawcrete'
goes over the bones (i use 3 sawdust-3 sand-1/2 lime putty-1/2 clay
slip-1 portland by volume then 200 ml bondcrete stirred in)
> i paint the surface with porland slurry before putting the sawcrete
on...
>
> once that's hardened up enough,the finish coat of Papercrete, again
painting the surface first with porland slurry (2 paper pulp-3 sand-1/2
lime putty-1/2 clay slip-1 cement by volume then 200 ml bondcrete
stirred in)This 'render coat' can be made very smooth and beautiful with
lots of patting!The sculptural possibilities are intriguing and so far
the basic structure is solid- my questions are:
>
> How long to wait before painting the papercrete:
> -Does it want a 28 day cure like portland does?
> -Would it be better to paint while the papercrete render is still
curing so the paint surface bonds with the papercrete?
>
> -Does anyone have a good recipe for a breathable homemade paint for
the papercrete? I have tried Grout mixed to paint consistency with a
little bit of bondcrete and lime putty- it worked but the grout is a bit
pricey.
>
> -Has anyone tried using Magnesium Cement with papercrete or sawcrete?
> i understand it is keen to form a bipolar bond with cellulose which
portland apparently is not...?
>

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Sunday, October 24, 2010

[papercreters] papercrete curing,paint for and magnesium cement...?

i have been doing some experimental concrete work for which the finish coat is papercrete and so far it looks promising-

the base <bones> is made to any shape using cloth dipped in portland cement slurry (with bondcrete in)-the cloth can be old clothes cut to flat pieces if you want to be fancy (natural fibre best)

the cloth is dipped and wrung out then hung on horizontal wires about 6 inches apart attached to wooden uprights (can use ringlock fencing!) Once the cloth has hardened up enough to carry on,a layer of 'sawcrete' goes over the bones (i use 3 sawdust-3 sand-1/2 lime putty-1/2 clay slip-1 portland by volume then 200 ml bondcrete stirred in)
i paint the surface with porland slurry before putting the sawcrete on...

once that's hardened up enough,the finish coat of Papercrete, again painting the surface first with porland slurry (2 paper pulp-3 sand-1/2 lime putty-1/2 clay slip-1 cement by volume then 200 ml bondcrete stirred in)This 'render coat' can be made very smooth and beautiful with lots of patting!The sculptural possibilities are intriguing and so far the basic structure is solid- my questions are:

How long to wait before painting the papercrete:
-Does it want a 28 day cure like portland does?
-Would it be better to paint while the papercrete render is still curing so the paint surface bonds with the papercrete?

-Does anyone have a good recipe for a breathable homemade paint for the papercrete? I have tried Grout mixed to paint consistency with a little bit of bondcrete and lime putty- it worked but the grout is a bit pricey.

-Has anyone tried using Magnesium Cement with papercrete or sawcrete?
i understand it is keen to form a bipolar bond with cellulose which portland apparently is not...?

------------------------------------

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RE: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace



Judith, thanks again!

We'll call the Habitat stores in Vegas to see what they have.  It's a 120 mile drive, but there are some other things we could get.

And those Rumford kivas are interesting, so much to learn,

Christine

At 09:21 AM 10/23/2010, you wrote:

 

It's good to know my post is helping you. I got the plan for the kiva from Carole Crews' book Clay Culture. There are lots of 8" pipes at the Habitat store. Where it goes through the roof you make a cage of wire and put about 5" of pumice in it all the way around the pipe to keep it from anything flammable.
 
This is a Rumford kiva so more efficient than a conventional fireplace. Just google Rumford and you will find lots of info. Another reason why I am not overly concerned about efficiency is that the room is very small and I anticipate it will take a short quick fire to bring it up to temp. I like cool spaces anyway.
 
 
The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



 

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: christine@bayhouse.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:29:04 -0700
Subject: RE: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace

 
Judy, this is really interesting.  We are looking for a small used wood stove, but haven't found one yet.  So your first post here about the kiva and especially the pictures got me interested and now we're considering it.

Thing is that fireplaces are rather inefficient. I looked around the web a little and found some VERY cool cob ovens (outdoor) and some had a door and I'm thinking that might make it more efficient (less draft). 

I built an horno in 2007 and it works pretty good, but I never thought of using adobe indoors.  The room where is goes is only sheet rocked, not even taped yet and we got the concrete slab.  It would beat "Mr. Heater" by a mile -- today we brought it back in from the garage and anything's better than that propane bottle!

And of course the most expensive part is the triple wall pipe through the attic (crawl space, conventional truss "flat" roof) and the chimney. 

For the chimney I will use an 8" stove pipe and cover it with cob.


Why did you decide on 8" pipe?

We've been looking for pipe on the web and last year Northern Tools had by far the best deal for kits (on sale), but almost everything was 6" and so are most (all?) their stoves. I can only imagine how much more it costs for 8" pipe.

I've sized electric wire and pluming pipes, never thought I'd have to learn about stove pipe sizing. Fortunately there's lots of info on the web, but I greatly appreciate info specific to cob.

And thanks for the pics and sharing!  I can't understand why I never once thought of building a kiva until I saw your posts.

Christine


At 08:24 PM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
 

Thanks Perry (and Spaceman too). The fireplace is cob with a small amount of straw which will burn out. I am forming it around some rabbit wire and will keep adding until it looks right.

For the chimney I will use an 8" stove pipe and cover it with cob. At the part where it goes through the roof I will have to insulate it with pumice.
I hope to have it done this weekend and then I will do another one in the other building.

The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



 

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: perryway@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:22:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace

 
This is awesome Judith!  I love the look of that fireplace.  Is the upper part cob or clay?  Do you anticipate that this will harden with the heat much like a clay pot?


On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:27 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS < williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
[ Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]
I tried doing some papercrete plaster today. I made some pulped newspaper and mixed it with clay soil, gypsum and a small amount of perlite. It's just an experimant to see how it works to even out the rough surface of the walls to get ready for finish plaster. It went on OK and looks good, better than the rough walls anyway. I tried using a hawk and a wooden float and managed to get the stuff on with much clumsiness but did better with just my hands. I think it's like so many things that require some practice. I'm open to suggestions and to hearing the experiences of others.
 
I've also managed to build a cute little kiva fireplace. It's not quite done yet but looks good so far. I'm trying to get the place ready for finish plaster before it gets cold.






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Saturday, October 23, 2010

RE: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace



It's good to know my post is helping you. I got the plan for the kiva from Carole Crews' book Clay Culture. There are lots of 8" pipes at the Habitat store. Where it goes through the roof you make a cage of wire and put about 5" of pumice in it all the way around the pipe to keep it from anything flammable.
 
This is a Rumford kiva so more efficient than a conventional fireplace. Just google Rumford and you will find lots of info. Another reason why I am not overly concerned about efficiency is that the room is very small and I anticipate it will take a short quick fire to bring it up to temp. I like cool spaces anyway.
 
 
The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



 


To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: christine@bayhouse.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:29:04 -0700
Subject: RE: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace

 
Judy, this is really interesting.  We are looking for a small used wood stove, but haven't found one yet.  So your first post here about the kiva and especially the pictures got me interested and now we're considering it.

Thing is that fireplaces are rather inefficient. I looked around the web a little and found some VERY cool cob ovens (outdoor) and some had a door and I'm thinking that might make it more efficient (less draft). 

I built an horno in 2007 and it works pretty good, but I never thought of using adobe indoors.  The room where is goes is only sheet rocked, not even taped yet and we got the concrete slab.  It would beat "Mr. Heater" by a mile -- today we brought it back in from the garage and anything's better than that propane bottle!

And of course the most expensive part is the triple wall pipe through the attic (crawl space, conventional truss "flat" roof) and the chimney. 

For the chimney I will use an 8" stove pipe and cover it with cob.

Why did you decide on 8" pipe?

We've been looking for pipe on the web and last year Northern Tools had by far the best deal for kits (on sale), but almost everything was 6" and so are most (all?) their stoves. I can only imagine how much more it costs for 8" pipe.

I've sized electric wire and pluming pipes, never thought I'd have to learn about stove pipe sizing. Fortunately there's lots of info on the web, but I greatly appreciate info specific to cob.

And thanks for the pics and sharing!  I can't understand why I never once thought of building a kiva until I saw your posts.

Christine


At 08:24 PM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
 

Thanks Perry (and Spaceman too). The fireplace is cob with a small amount of straw which will burn out. I am forming it around some rabbit wire and will keep adding until it looks right.

For the chimney I will use an 8" stove pipe and cover it with cob. At the part where it goes through the roof I will have to insulate it with pumice.
I hope to have it done this weekend and then I will do another one in the other building.

The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



 

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: perryway@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:22:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace

 
This is awesome Judith!  I love the look of that fireplace.  Is the upper part cob or clay?  Do you anticipate that this will harden with the heat much like a clay pot?


On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:27 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS < williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
[ Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]

I tried doing some papercrete plaster today. I made some pulped newspaper and mixed it with clay soil, gypsum and a small amount of perlite. It's just an experimant to see how it works to even out the rough surface of the walls to get ready for finish plaster. It went on OK and looks good, better than the rough walls anyway. I tried using a hawk and a wooden float and managed to get the stuff on with much clumsiness but did better with just my hands. I think it's like so many things that require some practice. I'm open to suggestions and to hearing the experiences of others.
 
I've also managed to build a cute little kiva fireplace. It's not quite done yet but looks good so far. I'm trying to get the place ready for finish plaster before it gets cold.






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Friday, October 22, 2010

RE: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace



Judy, this is really interesting.  We are looking for a small used wood stove, but haven't found one yet.  So your first post here about the kiva and especially the pictures got me interested and now we're considering it.

Thing is that fireplaces are rather inefficient. I looked around the web a little and found some VERY cool cob ovens (outdoor) and some had a door and I'm thinking that might make it more efficient (less draft). 

I built an horno in 2007 and it works pretty good, but I never thought of using adobe indoors.  The room where is goes is only sheet rocked, not even taped yet and we got the concrete slab.  It would beat "Mr. Heater" by a mile -- today we brought it back in from the garage and anything's better than that propane bottle!

And of course the most expensive part is the triple wall pipe through the attic (crawl space, conventional truss "flat" roof) and the chimney. 

For the chimney I will use an 8" stove pipe and cover it with cob.

Why did you decide on 8" pipe?

We've been looking for pipe on the web and last year Northern Tools had by far the best deal for kits (on sale), but almost everything was 6" and so are most (all?) their stoves. I can only imagine how much more it costs for 8" pipe.

I've sized electric wire and pluming pipes, never thought I'd have to learn about stove pipe sizing. Fortunately there's lots of info on the web, but I greatly appreciate info specific to cob.

And thanks for the pics and sharing!  I can't understand why I never once thought of building a kiva until I saw your posts.

Christine


At 08:24 PM 10/22/2010, you wrote:
 

Thanks Perry (and Spaceman too). The fireplace is cob with a small amount of straw which will burn out. I am forming it around some rabbit wire and will keep adding until it looks right.

For the chimney I will use an 8" stove pipe and cover it with cob. At the part where it goes through the roof I will have to insulate it with pumice.
I hope to have it done this weekend and then I will do another one in the other building.

The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



 

To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: perryway@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:22:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace

 
This is awesome Judith!  I love the look of that fireplace.  Is the upper part cob or clay?  Do you anticipate that this will harden with the heat much like a clay pot?


On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:27 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS < williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
[ Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]

I tried doing some papercrete plaster today. I made some pulped newspaper and mixed it with clay soil, gypsum and a small amount of perlite. It's just an experimant to see how it works to even out the rough surface of the walls to get ready for finish plaster. It went on OK and looks good, better than the rough walls anyway. I tried using a hawk and a wooden float and managed to get the stuff on with much clumsiness but did better with just my hands. I think it's like so many things that require some practice. I'm open to suggestions and to hearing the experiences of others.
 
I've also managed to build a cute little kiva fireplace. It's not quite done yet but looks good so far. I'm trying to get the place ready for finish plaster before it gets cold.





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RE: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace



Thanks Perry (and Spaceman too). The fireplace is cob with a small amount of straw which will burn out. I am forming it around some rabbit wire and will keep adding until it looks right.

For the chimney I will use an 8" stove pipe and cover it with cob. At the part where it goes through the roof I will have to insulate it with pumice.
I hope to have it done this weekend and then I will do another one in the other building.

The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith



 


To: papercreters@yahoogroups.com
From: perryway@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:22:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace

 
This is awesome Judith!  I love the look of that fireplace.  Is the upper part cob or clay?  Do you anticipate that this will harden with the heat much like a clay pot?


On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:27 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]


I tried doing some papercrete plaster today. I made some pulped newspaper and mixed it with clay soil, gypsum and a small amount of perlite. It's just an experimant to see how it works to even out the rough surface of the walls to get ready for finish plaster. It went on OK and looks good, better than the rough walls anyway. I tried using a hawk and a wooden float and managed to get the stuff on with much clumsiness but did better with just my hands. I think it's like so many things that require some practice. I'm open to suggestions and to hearing the experiences of others.
 
I've also managed to build a cute little kiva fireplace. It's not quite done yet but looks good so far. I'm trying to get the place ready for finish plaster before it gets cold.





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Re: [papercreters] Re: Bought a parcel of land



On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Evelyn Vollmer <evelynanne8@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Hi Perry, I'm glad you liked the link. I'll have to read with more
consideration your reply when I return home as I have just read your
reply in Seattle having just shared a bottle of wine :). I hope you
will invite me to your land, I'll bring a sack of white clover seed
:).


How can I refuse that deal!  Such a deal!  :)   I've been looking for bulk radish and daikon seeds as well since that Japanese man said those were first course to open up the soil but just yesterday I stumbled across a lady in Creston losing her property (due to fraud) who is selling everything other than the home.  I'm going to pick up a ton of stuff tomorrow, corrugated steel, nails, brackets and braces (steel) tools, lumber.  So looks like I'm going to be building a shed first!  But I need the shed to store the equipment I will use to work papercrete so that it is not stolen since I'll be weekending at first.

Have a safe trip, when you return I'll be happy to show you my place!

Perry


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Re: [papercreters] Re: Bought a parcel of land

Hi Perry, I'm glad you liked the link. I'll have to read with more
consideration your reply when I return home as I have just read your
reply in Seattle having just shared a bottle of wine :). I hope you
will invite me to your land, I'll bring a sack of white clover seed
:). Hello to everyone, am heading to Vancouver Island tomorrow,
yipppeee. Having some time to think about it I feel that Spaceman's
stationary auto driven mixer would work very well for you.

On 10/20/10, Perry Way <perryway@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you Evelyn for this link! I started reading it and instantly
> intrigued. I am willing to consider unconventional maverick methods because
> quite frequently it's the exception to normalcy that allows us to discover
> new ways. This next bit I'm about to share kind of dovetails in with the
> unconventionality that might wind up proving to be quite a cost effective
> (and portable) method to purify water. I am reading now a great deal on
> DCMD, which is Direct Contact Membrane Distillation. This is really a
> creative thing. I don't know how this was discovered but apparently it
> works because the government is spending grant money on it or has spent it,
> rather. I don't know where to find any commercial products yet. Perhaps
> there are none and someone would need to engineer their own solution. How
> it works is there is a hot water supply that passes over a hydrophobic
> membrane that allows water vapor to pass through. The membrane seems to be
> similar (but very different) to the membranes used in reverse osmosis. The
> other side of the membrane is cold. Differing pressure levels cause vapor
> to pass through the membrane. And the vapor condenses there and it's pure,
> or as pure as reverse osmosis can deliver. Unlike reverse osmosis, there
> is no waste water output. On the surface it seems like a cost effective
> thing because you could make the water hot simply by solar water heating.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Evelyn Vollmer
> <evelynanne8@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Perry and all, I want to apologise before I send this because it's not
>> about papercrete but I think this info is wonderful. It's about a Japanese
>> farmer, Masanobu Fukuoka, he is no longer living but actually toured
>> around
>> educating. In a nut shell his method will show you how to take land that
>> can
>> not grow anything and bring it back to life. I read a lot about him some
>> years ago, from what I remember the first thing I would do is lay a much
>> of
>> white clover seed all over your property, right now would be a good time
>> to
>> do this with the rain we are having or at least before spring.
>> Anyway.....here is a start to reading about him
>>
>>
>> http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1982-07-01/Masanobu-Fukuoka.aspx
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Perry Way <perryway@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Joel, I know where you're talking about in a general sense. Are you
>>> east of the lake? There's a large whitened section of land on Google
>>> Maps.
>>> If that's anywhere near you then I think we both have similar issues.
>>>
>>> My first orientation regarding soil is vegetation! I don't want to
>>> retire
>>> in some desert where I can't grow my veggies and always have more than I
>>> need so I can trade or sell things as my ultimate goal is to be self
>>> sufficient, no longer working for the man, and living a life from morning
>>> to
>>> night exactly how I want to which is independent and free. I'm nearly
>>> vegetarian, I would say 90% vegetarian, so it's important to me to have a
>>> working setup. If I have to do raised beds for veggies, no problem,
>>> thats a
>>> pretty good way of going about things. I am prepared for that. But at
>>> the
>>> moment my heart sank because I have asked more questions and gotten more
>>> responses from the lady at the Community Center. Looks like fruit trees
>>> are
>>> out of the question for the time being :( I can say that because I've
>>> gotten a lot of clues to go by. I am close to saying this is Sodium
>>> Carbonate. Possibly Sodium Bicarbonate which is baking soda. It is
>>> gritty
>>> and pure white and gets really small pieces that rub your skin smoother
>>> when
>>> you rub them together with some wetted down. I'm told the water in my
>>> area
>>> tastes like baking soda. But I recall somewhere some time ago a word or
>>> two
>>> regarding Soda Lake not being baking soda but very similar which is why I
>>> say Sodium Carbonate.
>>>
>>> Oh that reminds me, you asked where my property is. Okay, my property is
>>> located nearest to Coalinga Trail and Clarksberg Road in California
>>> Valley. Here's
>>> a map centered on my
>>> property<http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.295324,-119.944691&spn=0.002898,0.005681&t=h&z=18>.
>>> It is 330 x 330 feet or 2.5 acres and next to the northwest corner lot.
>>> All lots in California Valley are 2.5 acres unless they are odd shaped
>>> or
>>> different. It's interesting how that works out, you start off with 640
>>> acre
>>> section and then start dividing it down in 1/4's and you eventually get
>>> to
>>> 2.5 acres, and you will find that pattern all over the west, and perhaps
>>> even the midwest. So when you zoom out you will start to see little
>>> squares
>>> on the landscape and thats lots with homes or lots cleared and left empty
>>> or
>>> abandoned properties.
>>>
>>> California Valley is in the center of the Carrizo Plain, which is one of
>>> the or the newest member in the Federal Park system. Bill Clinton signed
>>> that one into existence and I thank Bill for that as the land was being
>>> razed every year and turned into a dust bowl. The Carrizo Plain National
>>> Monument/Park is being returned to its bygone era where there is seasonal
>>> grazing and they do not allow the ranchers to graze forever, they have
>>> time
>>> permits with BLM overseers. This is like enforcing a level of use that
>>> allows it to simulate nature as the Carrizo is long called the Serengeti
>>> of
>>> North America. The spring time is magnificent. I do not think you would
>>> disagree with me there. Look at this one photograph I took entitled "The
>>> Mountains and the Purple
>>> Majesty<http://www.flickr.com/photos/perryway/4861790857/in/set-72157624657047720/>"
>>> That is just a taste of the beauty there which is a rainbow of yellows,
>>> oranges, blues, purples, browns (chocolate lily), greens obviously, reds,
>>> whites and what else am I leaving out? But that beauty is short lived,
>>> as
>>> the Serengeti of Africa is. But I kind of think it's beautiful just vast
>>> empty land with interesting mountains on all sides, it's very picturesque
>>> I
>>> think.
>>>
>>> Soda Lake is the main centerpiece of the Carrizo Plain. I am very drawn
>>> to it. It can be absolutely breath taking. The wildflowers grow next to
>>> the salt brush lining the shores. A special variety of the same flowers
>>> found elsewhere. They have adapted to the soda water and they try very
>>> hard
>>> to live, and I solute them for what they are, prime examples of urge
>>> energy.
>>> That's why I uploaded this particular
>>> photograph<http://www.flickr.com/photos/perryway/4861842961/in/set-72157624657047720/>
>>> .
>>>
>>> You mentioned silt on your site. I think I have plenty of that too,
>>> actually. I did such a cursory inspection last weekend, next weekend I
>>> will
>>> be armed with more information and a great curiousity, I'm going to take
>>> a
>>> soil sample and send it to Western Laboratories. Maybe I should take
>>> two.
>>> One on one of the whitened areas, and one of the non-whitened areas.
>>> Well
>>> I am getting excited. I don't care if this property has problems. Shoot
>>> man, life has problems everywhere. Might as well pick a place to stop
>>> moving so you can start building a future based on what you can afford.
>>> I
>>> don't have it in me to slave for the man for another 30 years with a
>>> death-pledge (mort-gage), and post business failure I lack the savings I
>>> had
>>> before so I don't care if I have to work the soil for a long time to make
>>> it
>>> better. I am investigating things and I'll come up with some solution
>>> that
>>> works for me.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the interest and best wishes on your site too. Can you share
>>> some more about your property too?
>>>
>>> Perry
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 5:52 PM, joel <joelincalif@aim.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting story Perry! I'm interested to see what you find out.
>>>> I too bought some land in California, mine is north of Reno just on the
>>>> California side - sorta near Honey Lake. Mine is covered with a layer of
>>>> silt and scrub plants from a very old lake bed. Where is your place?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps some of the farm extension offices in Central California would
>>>> be
>>>> able to provide some help to define the soil quality and what those
>>>> crystals
>>>> are.
>>>>
>>>> Joel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com <papercreters%40yahoogroups.com>,
>>>> Perry Way <perryway@...> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello papercreters, I have some happy news and not so happy news.
>>>> > First
>>>> the
>>>> > happy news, I bought a parcel of land! It is 2.5 acres in the Central
>>>> > Californian outback. It is off the grid but if I want to pipe into
>>>> > electricity it is one lot away.
>>>> >
>>>> > The not so happy news stems from my newfound apprehension about my
>>>> first
>>>> > holes dug on the property.
>>>> >
>>>> > I need to find someone who has some knowledge or experience on soil.
>>>> Before
>>>> > I build I need to know what I'm up against on this property. There are
>>>> > patches of the soil which are thin of vegetation and has a white
>>>> > powder
>>>> on
>>>> > the surface. So I dug some holes, the white part seemed to be kind of
>>>> > shallow and once I got down deeper than that it looked like very very
>>>> nice
>>>> > clay-loam soil. Easily breaks up and all probably because it is all
>>>> fluffed
>>>> > up from vegatation with a kazillion microscopic roots in just one
>>>> shovel
>>>> > full. As I dug deeper though, the soil looked very nice. It has
>>>> > practically no sand, but it has a lot of loam. So I grabbed a handful
>>>> to do
>>>> > a compression test on it. Squeezed and released and it stuck together
>>>> real
>>>> > good and it got smaller too. So I kept squeezing to see how compact I
>>>> could
>>>> > get it with just my hand and it had to have compressed at least 1/3 to
>>>> 1/2.
>>>> > Suddenly I had visions of a cob house. This soil is really good for
>>>> cob, I
>>>> > think. But maybe not.... A day later, I'm at work to pass the good
>>>> > news
>>>> to
>>>> > my buddy about buying this land. So I found my clay ball, it had lots
>>>> of
>>>> > white crystals forming on the surface! Now hours later, the area I
>>>> swiped
>>>> > with my finger is regrowing little hairs little crystals forming on
>>>> > the
>>>> > surface. Now this soil came from deep in the hole I dug. It had
>>>> > nothing
>>>> > visible white about it at all. It was only moist. (we just had a spot
>>>> of
>>>> > rain a couple of times in the past week at that location). Fast
>>>> > forward
>>>> to
>>>> > another hole I dug, I dug about half a dozen holes in various places.
>>>> This
>>>> > other hole I dug I got down to the clay where it is noticeably clay
>>>> > and
>>>> hard
>>>> > to dig and I got a half a shovel full of it and noticed white specks
>>>> > in
>>>> the
>>>> > clay. More than specks actually. About 1/4 inch in size they were
>>>> > everywhere equally. Not so the clay looked white, but more like how
>>>> much
>>>> > chocolate is in chocolate chip ice cream on one of the cheap brands.
>>>> Back
>>>> > to the clay ball forming white powder on surface, I had had visions of
>>>> > perimeter fruit trees, some row crops (its 2.5 acres) and an off the
>>>> grid
>>>> > cob house which is dirt cheap (haha) but now I'm wondering about soil
>>>> > quality not just for the fruit trees in my mind but also for anything
>>>> that
>>>> > would use the soil. In other words I'm wondering if I would be able to
>>>> use
>>>> > this soil in papercrete as an additive, or rammed earth, or cob or
>>>> adobe or
>>>> > whatever uses there are for soil for that matter.
>>>> >
>>>> > Back to finding someone with knowledge or experience on soil, if
>>>> > anyone
>>>> has
>>>> > someone they could direct me to, I'd appreciate it a lot!
>>>> >
>>>> > Perry
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn out
>> just right."
>>
>> - Sequoyah Trueblood
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


--
"If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn
out just right."

- Sequoyah Trueblood


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Thursday, October 21, 2010

Re: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace



This is awesome Judith!  I love the look of that fireplace.  Is the upper part cob or clay?  Do you anticipate that this will harden with the heat much like a clay pot?



On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:27 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS <williams_judith@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]


I tried doing some papercrete plaster today. I made some pulped newspaper and mixed it with clay soil, gypsum and a small amount of perlite. It's just an experimant to see how it works to even out the rough surface of the walls to get ready for finish plaster. It went on OK and looks good, better than the rough walls anyway. I tried using a hawk and a wooden float and managed to get the stuff on with much clumsiness but did better with just my hands. I think it's like so many things that require some practice. I'm open to suggestions and to hearing the experiences of others.
 
I've also managed to build a cute little kiva fireplace. It's not quite done yet but looks good so far. I'm trying to get the place ready for finish plaster before it gets cold.



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Re: [papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace



That's beautiful! You should get lots of radiation from that tall opening. What are you using for the chimney?

spaceman  All opinions expressed or implied are subject to change without notice upon receipt of new information.  http://Starship-Enterprises.Net

On 10/21/2010 5:27 PM, JUDITH WILLIAMS wrote:

I tried doing some papercrete plaster today. I made some pulped newspaper and mixed it with clay soil, gypsum and a small amount of perlite. It's just an experimant to see how it works to even out the rough surface of the walls to get ready for finish plaster. It went on OK and looks good, better than the rough walls anyway. I tried using a hawk and a wooden float and managed to get the stuff on with much clumsiness but did better with just my hands. I think it's like so many things that require some practice. I'm open to suggestions and to hearing the experiences of others.
 
I've also managed to build a cute little kiva fireplace. It's not quite done yet but looks good so far. I'm trying to get the place ready for finish plaster before it gets cold.

The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith




No virus found in this message.
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[papercreters] Plaster anad kiva fireplace [2 Attachments]

[Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS included below]


I tried doing some papercrete plaster today. I made some pulped newspaper and mixed it with clay soil, gypsum and a small amount of perlite. It's just an experimant to see how it works to even out the rough surface of the walls to get ready for finish plaster. It went on OK and looks good, better than the rough walls anyway. I tried using a hawk and a wooden float and managed to get the stuff on with much clumsiness but did better with just my hands. I think it's like so many things that require some practice. I'm open to suggestions and to hearing the experiences of others.
 
I've also managed to build a cute little kiva fireplace. It's not quite done yet but looks good so far. I'm trying to get the place ready for finish plaster before it gets cold.

The Making of Papercrete DVD now available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Papercrete-Judith-Williams/dp/B0040ZNE9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1283998627&sr=8-1

Follow progress on the new project at http://www.papercretebyjudith.com/blog

More papercrete info at http://squidoo.com/papercretebyjudith




Attachment(s) from JUDITH WILLIAMS

2 of 2 Photo(s)


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Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Re: Re: [papercreters] Tetracrete



If I recall correctly, Tetrapak is the collapsable drink packaging that is generally made from laminated layers of paper, plastic, and aluminum foil.  It has also been recycled to make decking boards.  It is used for everything from kiddie juice boxes to UHT milk.

Tom Hay, Ph.D.
A2B Research and Development, LLC
tomhay@verizon.net

Oct 20, 2010 08:56:04 PM, papercreters@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 

What is tetrapack?

Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless


-----Original message-----
From: "prrr.t21@btinternet.com"
To:
papercreters@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Wed, Oct 20, 2010 23:34:59 GMT+00:00
Subject:
[papercreters] Tetracrete

 

I did some experiments with tetrapak papercrete, and the results are good. The resulting papercrete was every bit as strong as ordinary papercrete, and was prettily speckled with little bits of non-pulpable outer layer of carton.

BUT getting these things to pulp is very difficult. The little mixer I've been using for test samples didn't even begin to do it, even after an overnight soak. The only way was to cross-cut shred the tetrapak first, then the mixer would do it - but only with a real struggle and a very prolonged pulping time.

NT



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Re: [papercreters] Re: Bought a parcel of land



Thank you Evelyn for this link!  I started reading it and instantly intrigued.  I am willing to consider unconventional maverick methods because quite frequently it's the exception to normalcy that allows us to discover new ways.  This next bit I'm about to share kind of dovetails in with the unconventionality that might wind up proving to be quite a cost effective (and portable) method to purify water.  I am reading now a great deal on DCMD, which is Direct Contact Membrane Distillation.  This is really a creative thing.  I don't know how this was discovered but apparently it works because the government is spending grant money on it or has spent it, rather.  I don't know where to find any commercial products yet.  Perhaps there are none and someone would need to engineer their own solution.  How it works is there is a hot water supply that passes over a hydrophobic membrane that allows water vapor to pass through.  The membrane seems to be similar (but very different) to the membranes used in reverse osmosis.  The other side of the membrane is cold.  Differing pressure levels cause vapor to pass through the membrane.  And the vapor condenses there and it's pure, or as pure as reverse osmosis can deliver.   Unlike reverse osmosis, there is no waste water output.  On the surface it seems like a cost effective thing because you could make the water hot simply by solar water heating.



On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Evelyn Vollmer <evelynanne8@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Perry and all, I want to apologise before I send this because it's not about papercrete but I think this info is wonderful. It's about a Japanese farmer, Masanobu Fukuoka, he is no longer living but actually toured around educating. In a nut shell his method will show you how to take land that can not grow anything and bring it back to life. I read a lot about him some years ago, from what I remember the first thing I would do is lay a much of white clover seed all over your property, right now would be a good time to do this with the rain we are having or at least before spring. Anyway.....here is a start to reading about him

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1982-07-01/Masanobu-Fukuoka.aspx



On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Perry Way <perryway@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Hi Joel, I know where you're talking about in a general sense.  Are you east of the lake? There's a large whitened section of land on Google Maps.  If that's anywhere near you then I think we both have similar issues.  


My first orientation regarding soil is vegetation!  I don't want to retire in some desert where I can't grow my veggies and always have more than I need so I can trade or sell things as my ultimate goal is to be self sufficient, no longer working for the man, and living a life from morning to night exactly how I want to which is independent and free.  I'm nearly vegetarian, I would say 90% vegetarian, so it's important to me to have a working setup.  If I have to do raised beds for veggies, no problem, thats a pretty good way of going about things.  I am prepared for that.  But at the moment my heart sank because I have asked more questions and gotten more responses from the lady at the Community Center.  Looks like fruit trees are out of the question for the time being :(  I can say that because I've gotten a lot of clues to go by.  I am close to saying this is Sodium Carbonate. Possibly Sodium Bicarbonate which is baking soda.  It is gritty and pure white and gets really small pieces that rub your skin smoother when you rub them together with some wetted down.  I'm told the water in my area tastes like baking soda.  But I recall somewhere some time ago a word or two regarding Soda Lake not being baking soda but very similar which is why I say Sodium Carbonate.

Oh that reminds me, you asked where my property is.  Okay, my property is located nearest to Coalinga Trail and Clarksberg Road in California Valley.  Here's a map centered on my property.  It is 330 x 330 feet or 2.5 acres and next to the northwest corner lot.  All lots in California Valley are 2.5 acres unless they are odd shaped or different.  It's interesting how that works out, you start off with 640 acre section and then start dividing it down in 1/4's and you eventually get to 2.5 acres, and you will find that pattern all over the west, and perhaps even the midwest.  So when you zoom out you will start to see little squares on the landscape and thats lots with homes or lots cleared and left empty or abandoned properties.

California Valley is in the center of the Carrizo Plain, which is one of the or the newest member in the Federal Park system.  Bill Clinton signed that one into existence and I thank Bill for that as the land was being razed every year and turned into a dust bowl.  The Carrizo Plain National Monument/Park is being returned to its bygone era where there is seasonal grazing and they do not allow the ranchers to graze forever, they have time permits with BLM overseers.  This is like enforcing a level of use that allows it to simulate nature as the Carrizo is long called the Serengeti of North America.  The spring time is magnificent. I do not think you would disagree with me there.  Look at this one photograph I took entitled "The Mountains and the Purple Majesty" That is just a taste of the beauty there which is a rainbow of yellows, oranges, blues, purples, browns (chocolate lily), greens obviously, reds, whites and what else am I leaving out?  But that beauty is short lived, as the Serengeti of Africa is.  But I kind of think it's beautiful just vast empty land with interesting mountains on all sides, it's very picturesque I think.

Soda Lake is the main centerpiece of the Carrizo Plain.  I am very drawn to it.  It can be absolutely breath taking.  The wildflowers grow next to the salt brush lining the shores.  A special variety of the same flowers found elsewhere.  They have adapted to the soda water and they try very hard to live, and I solute them for what they are, prime examples of urge energy.  That's why I uploaded this particular photograph.

You mentioned silt on your site.  I think I have plenty of that too, actually.  I did such a cursory inspection last weekend, next weekend I will be armed with more information and a great curiousity, I'm going to take a soil sample and send it to Western Laboratories.  Maybe I should take two.  One on one of the whitened areas, and one of the non-whitened areas.  Well I am getting excited.  I don't care if this property has problems.  Shoot man, life has problems everywhere.  Might as well pick a place to stop moving so you can start building a future based on what you can afford.  I don't have it in me to slave for the man for another 30 years with a death-pledge (mort-gage), and post business failure I lack the savings I had before so I don't care if I have to work the soil for a long time to make it better.  I am investigating things and I'll come up with some solution that works for me.

Thanks for the interest and best wishes on your site too.  Can you share some more about your property too?

Perry


On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 5:52 PM, joel <joelincalif@aim.com> wrote:
 

Interesting story Perry! I'm interested to see what you find out.
I too bought some land in California, mine is north of Reno just on the California side - sorta near Honey Lake. Mine is covered with a layer of silt and scrub plants from a very old lake bed. Where is your place?

Perhaps some of the farm extension offices in Central California would be able to provide some help to define the soil quality and what those crystals are.

Joel



--- In papercreters@yahoogroups.com, Perry Way <perryway@...> wrote:
>
> Hello papercreters, I have some happy news and not so happy news. First the
> happy news, I bought a parcel of land! It is 2.5 acres in the Central
> Californian outback. It is off the grid but if I want to pipe into
> electricity it is one lot away.
>
> The not so happy news stems from my newfound apprehension about my first
> holes dug on the property.
>
> I need to find someone who has some knowledge or experience on soil. Before
> I build I need to know what I'm up against on this property. There are
> patches of the soil which are thin of vegetation and has a white powder on
> the surface. So I dug some holes, the white part seemed to be kind of
> shallow and once I got down deeper than that it looked like very very nice
> clay-loam soil. Easily breaks up and all probably because it is all fluffed
> up from vegatation with a kazillion microscopic roots in just one shovel
> full. As I dug deeper though, the soil looked very nice. It has
> practically no sand, but it has a lot of loam. So I grabbed a handful to do
> a compression test on it. Squeezed and released and it stuck together real
> good and it got smaller too. So I kept squeezing to see how compact I could
> get it with just my hand and it had to have compressed at least 1/3 to 1/2.
> Suddenly I had visions of a cob house. This soil is really good for cob, I
> think. But maybe not.... A day later, I'm at work to pass the good news to
> my buddy about buying this land. So I found my clay ball, it had lots of
> white crystals forming on the surface! Now hours later, the area I swiped
> with my finger is regrowing little hairs little crystals forming on the
> surface. Now this soil came from deep in the hole I dug. It had nothing
> visible white about it at all. It was only moist. (we just had a spot of
> rain a couple of times in the past week at that location). Fast forward to
> another hole I dug, I dug about half a dozen holes in various places. This
> other hole I dug I got down to the clay where it is noticeably clay and hard
> to dig and I got a half a shovel full of it and noticed white specks in the
> clay. More than specks actually. About 1/4 inch in size they were
> everywhere equally. Not so the clay looked white, but more like how much
> chocolate is in chocolate chip ice cream on one of the cheap brands. Back
> to the clay ball forming white powder on surface, I had had visions of
> perimeter fruit trees, some row crops (its 2.5 acres) and an off the grid
> cob house which is dirt cheap (haha) but now I'm wondering about soil
> quality not just for the fruit trees in my mind but also for anything that
> would use the soil. In other words I'm wondering if I would be able to use
> this soil in papercrete as an additive, or rammed earth, or cob or adobe or
> whatever uses there are for soil for that matter.
>
> Back to finding someone with knowledge or experience on soil, if anyone has
> someone they could direct me to, I'd appreciate it a lot!
>
> Perry
>





--
"If you give yourself fully to this moment the next moment will turn out just right."

- Sequoyah Trueblood





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